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1994-08-27
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From: "Kevin O'Donovan" <abaddon@nasoftwr.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dialogs!
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 10:49:42 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9407210138.A781-0100000@grad> from "Timothy Miller" at Jul 21, 94 01:46:38 am
X-Tremely: Sexy
Precedence: bulk
> We're saying to stop using dialogs.
>
I don't think that's what's being said. Stop using form_do() perhaps, but
not stop using dialogs. Just use them differently.
> Hey, this is the way GEM is. If we're going to require dialogs to be in
> windows, then it should made part of the operating system.
>
Well, I'm an X developer when I'm not working on the atari, so I can't speak
for Macs or PCs, but putting your forms in windows is not something the OS
does for you under any of the X toolkits, its up to the programmer. For that
matter, amodal form handling is not part of X per se, its provided by the
various toolkits. If you were to program at the basic X level then it would
be quite possible to have multiple event loops in different parts of your
code, and produce a modal application. And anyway, see below...
> functionality of the OS. MultiTOS and Geneva should put dialogs for apps
> automatically into windows and handle them accordingly.
>
And how do you see this working? The applications need to be changed as well,
or putting the forms in windows is going to do nothing more than giving them
a border. If you've got a form that can stay up whilst the rest of the program
is running then you're program has got to be able to accept events from it
at any time. There's no way the OS could do this for you.
> Every new program that supports that section of the GEM-List standards
> should put dialogs in windows. Fine. Every program that wants to
> properly support multuitasking, definately.
>
In the end people will use the programs they like irrespective of wether or
not they match our standards.
> But then you still have the problem of every program containing extra
> code for handling dialogs in windows, and each program having a different
> handler from a different library developer. There will be a lack of
> consistency and a lot of wasted space.
>
Which is why I'm thinking in terms of a shared library option for my toolkit.
At least that way all apps that use my toolkit will only require one instance
of the library. As for consistency, isn't that what this list is here for?
> 5k DA that's intended to make some setting and then quit certainly
> shouldn't be required to puts its dialog in a window. You won't have the
> dialog open long enough!
Well no, it shouldn't be required, but its still just as desirable that it
should. What if you need to check something elsewhere before making that
setting?
> And then to make standards on something as open-ended and unexplored as
> amodal dialogs is not reasonable.
I sort of agree on this, however I don't think amodal dialogs are unexplored.
They've existed on other platforms for a long time, and standards have been
set on those platforms - lets steal some ideas
> Let's let a few developers
> take a crack at it, using their own ideas and see what people really use
> and want.
Wether we like it or not, this is what is going to happen.
> Can someone tell me how to set up menu_popup's?
Wouldn't you be better asking this in comp.sys.atari.st.tech?
Kev
--
Kevin O'Donovan
abaddon@nasoftwr.demon.co.uk
kebab@cix.compulink.co.uk
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